Transcription of 10 July 2016 Hot Topic

Christian Gays Forums Hot Topics Forum Transcription of 10 July 2016 Hot Topic

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    Conversation in HOT TOPICS chatroom on July 10th 2016
    Me:  It is 8 pm Eastern Time HOT TOPICS time and so please join me in Blessing of the Room(7:01PM)
    Me:  Jehovah Jirah, our provider, we ask that YOU would send Blessings on All who gather to discuss exactly who or whom YOU are. I know YOU as my Lord, my creator, my heavenly father, who like my earthly father did, will forgive me no matter what I do even while he is disappointed in my actions. Lead the discussion, Lord and guide our thoughts to a better understanding of YOU. Amen(7:06PM)
    Bruce1:  Amen(7:06PM)
    Me:  welcome Bruce and Allan(7:07PM)
    Bruce1:  and bro(7:08PM)
    arrowLX:  thanks(7:08PM)
    Me:  yes, he popped in. Welcome Bro Law(7:08PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Hello Dad, Bruce, and a Allan(7:08PM)
    Me:  Can everyone see the Blessing Prayer?(7:10PM)
    Bruce1:  yes(7:10PM)
    arrowLX:  yesssssssssssssssss(7:11PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Yes(7:11PM)
    arrowLX:  still having trouble typing(7:11PM)
    Me:  If not, I want to copy and paste a couple lines which help to explain my thoughts on God so you all know where I am coming from even as I attempt to get YOU to think about G-d to use the old word, in ways that you might not have.(7:13PM)
    arrowLX:  brb(7:13PM)
    Me:  You will notice that while I am a Charismatic, born again, Spirit Filled, believer, I seldom talk about the Blood of the Lamb except in Spiritual Warfare(7:14PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  ok(7:15PM)
    arrowLX:  back(7:17PM)
    Me:  That is one thing that has always bothered me. If G-d would provide a lamb to keep Jacob from sacrificing Isaac on the mount, why did G-d allow Jesus to be sacrificed?(7:17PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†that was the point…(7:18PM)
    Me:  Obviously it was not to provide a blood sacrifice to be use in Spiritual Warfare(7:18PM)
    Me:  Explain the point, Allan(7:19PM)
    arrowLX:  haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaraaaaadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa(7:21PM)
    Me:  this room is difficult because one can not tell if others are typing or not(7:21PM)
    arrowLX:  hard to(7:21PM)
    arrowLX:  typing messed up(7:22PM)
    arrowLX:  Ill try(7:22PM)
    Me:  Sorry about putting you on the spot. Lets go to an easier topic(7:22PM)
    Me:  How many g-ds are there? Jehovah when it wrote the 10 commandments on rock supposedly said Thou shall not have any other god before Me. What other gods?(7:24PM)
    Bruce1:  how far back do you want to go Dad? the Phoenicians,Babylonians, romans(7:25PM)
    Me:  By the way, I am using Jehovah, the word for Lord, to refer to the Creator(7:25PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Millions of different gods(7:25PM)
    Bruce1:  greeks. chinese all had their own patheon of Gods and civilizations even older had their own the egyptians(7:26PM)
    arrowLX:  God showed us Abraham didnt have to sacrifice his son because He was going to sacrifice His own Son, as an atonement for sin(7:26PM)
    Me:  My room hic-cupped and I got thrown into an old script(7:27PM)
    arrowLX:  other gods meant idols(7:28PM)
    arrowLX:  there are no other real gods(7:29PM)
    Bruce1:  oh?(7:29PM)
    arrowLX:  nope(7:29PM)
    Bruce1:  then what does thta make the holy spirit and Jesus(7:29PM)
    Bruce1:  if the ftaher is the only God(7:29PM)
    Me:  Okay, according to one Creation Story in the Bible, Jehovah said Let US Was he referring to idols?(7:29PM)
    arrowLX:  not according to the Bible(7:30PM)
    Bruce1:  and why did the father allow humans to worship others for thousands of years before saying anything?(7:30PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†He did……….(7:31PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†the golden calf………(7:31PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†the destruction of Israel…..(7:32PM)
    Bruce1:  the golden calf was thousands of years after mankind was worshiping idols and other gods(7:32PM)
    Me:  So, did g-d make us or did we make g-d?(7:32PM)
    Bruce1:  both Dad(7:32PM)
    arrowLX:  the conquest of Judah(7:32PM)
    Me:  good one, son(7:33PM)
    Bruce1:  God made us. but we also make God over into what our image of God should be. we don;t know how God really is(7:33PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  The golden calf was the children of Israels idea having nothing to do with God who certainly approve of it(7:33PM)
    Bruce1:  that id disapproved of it bro(7:34PM)
    Bruce1:  is(7:34PM)
    arrowLX:  God made man then made gods of his own(7:34PM)
    Me:  I do not believe the creator approved of the Golden Calf, not by what IT did to it and the ones who were worshiping it(7:36PM)
    arrowLX:  they were tired of waiting for Moses so they made their own god and got punished for it(7:36PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  We make God in our image making act, live, believe and do what we think he should believe an find acceptable and what he should condemn(7:38PM)
    Me:  Two questions, first is Is g-d REAL?(7:38PM)
    arrowLX:  other tribes and cities were destroyed because they worshiped false gods(7:39PM)
    Me:  earthquakes, storms, natural forces destroy tribes and cities(7:40PM)
    arrowLX:  of course He is, but its a matter of faith(7:40PM)
    Me:  Here comes G-d and boy is she pissed by that answer(7:41PM)
    arrowLX:  the Bible indicates He used Israel to do it(7:41PM)
    arrowLX:  she?(7:42PM)
    Me:  How many hes do you know who give birth?(7:42PM)
    arrowLX:  no indication in the Bible that God is female(7:42PM)
    arrowLX:  the angels are all male(7:43PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  God has the attributes of both male and female called Elohim in the Bible(7:43PM)
    arrowLX:  b(7:44PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Many women prefer she as a proper way of describing God(7:45PM)
    arrowLX:  Elohim is the plural word for God to indicate the Trinity(7:45PM)
    Me:  I think I need to insert one important element into the discussion at this point. We are speaking English and have limited knowledge of the original language of the people before the flood.(7:46PM)
    arrowLX:  Father Son & Spirit were at the Creation so Elohim was used(7:47PM)
    arrowLX:  true Larry, Im just going by the Bible as we have it(7:48PM)
    Me:  It is believed that the Torah was first written down during the Babylon Captivity from 3 to 5 oral stories handed down among the survivors in Babylon after the destruction of the first Temple in Jerusalem. the Rest of what we refer to as the Bible was written after that point(7:49PM)
    arrowLX:  Bible says Let us make man in our image(7:49PM)
    Bruce1:  then God made women (Smiley)(7:50PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Aye as coequal with man to help him(7:51PM)
    arrowLX:  Moses had writing(7:51PM)
    Me:  Correct Allan, so Adam was a morphodite, having both genders, just like God. Then God separated the male from the female and created two beings, just like it says in the Bible(7:51PM)
    arrowLX:  Pentatuch much older than the Torah(7:52PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Correct(7:52PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†no indication of that in my Bible Larry…….(7:53PM)
    arrowLX:  Man and Woman indicated as separate entities as far as I can see(7:55PM)
    arrowLX:  talmud came after the Torah(7:56PM)
    arrowLX:  but Im not expert in Jewish traditions(7:58PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  That would be Bruce I susoect(7:58PM)
    arrowLX:  b(7:58PM)
    arrowLX:  ok(7:59PM)
    Me:  thank you for confirming what I was saying, Bruce, the most ancient written records date to the Babylon captivity. Now I want to quote a website called Evidence For God I will give you the site location later. If the Bible were referring to only physical characteristics when it states that man was created in the image of God, it would not say many of the things it does about His nature. For example, the Bible states that both males and females are created in the image of God.1 Unless God were a hermaphrodite (having both male and female sexual organs), this phrase could not refer to purely physical characteristics. In addition, there are numerous other verses in the Bible that describe God as having non-human physical characteristics, such as feathers and wings.2 Should we think of God as being an overgrown chicken? Certainly not! God is so unlike humans, that the Bible often paints word pictures to give us a glimpse of what God is like.(8:00PM)
    arrowLX:  b(8:00PM)
    Me:  G-d is so far beyond Real that we glimpse as through a shaded glass(8:02PM)
    Me:  what we use to look at the sun for an eclipse(8:03PM)
    arrowLX:¬†¬†not physical image!………(8:03PM)
    arrowLX:  in attributes, before the(8:03PM)
    arrowLX:  Fall(8:03PM)
    Bruce1:  there is a divine spark of life in everyone. since the fall(8:04PM)
    Bruce1:  too(8:04PM)
    Me:  The Native Americans believe Eagle Feathers were sacred because they carried prayers to the Great Spirit. That is why, if an Eagle Feather drops on the ground during a PowWow, everything Stops and the Medicine Cheifs say special Prayers apologizing to the Great Spirit(8:05PM)
    arrowLX:  all physical references to God are metaphorical(8:05PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Not if you understand Hebrew. In the original Hebrew God calls both and woman Adam and sees them as one. Then God goes and takes female Adam and separates her from the male Adam to become a helpmate for male Adam. Adam calls her woman first and then later Eve(8:05PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  the man(8:06PM)
    arrowLX:  nothing wrong with that(8:06PM)
    Me:  except, Allan, you said it was not in Your Bible(8:07PM)
    arrowLX:  I can and will not discuss Hebrew(8:07PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Nope correct Allan(8:07PM)
    arrowLX:  that is not, if its in Hebrew, no use discussing it(8:08PM)
    arrowLX:  as I have no frame of reference(8:08PM)
    Me:  Just a reminder, even to me, we are not here to argue our position, we are to discuss each others opinions(8:09PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Yes Dad(8:10PM)
    arrowLX:  b(8:10PM)
    arrowLX:  true agreed(8:10PM)
    Me:  I also have not studied Hebrew but I do remember that when the Children of Israel went to Egypt, they were called the Hebrews, so anything around that time would be with regard to Hebrew(8:11PM)
    arrowLX:  b(8:11PM)
    arrowLX:  I just meant the language(8:13PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  The term Hebrew first used in reference to Abraham when Sodom falls and Lots family is carried off into captivity(8:14PM)
    arrowLX:  ok(8:15PM)
    Me:¬†¬†The first human author to write down the biblical record was Moses. He was commanded by God to take on this task, for Exodus 34:27 records Gods words to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. And what language did he use? He wrote in his native language, called Hebrew. Hebrew is one of a group of languages known as the Semitic languages which were spoken throughout that part of the world, then called Mesopotamia, located today mainly in Iraq. Their alphabet consisted of 22 letters, all consonants. (Imagine having an alphabet with no vowels! Much later they did add vowels.) During the thousand years of its composition, almost the entire Old Testament was written in Hebrew. But a few chapters in the prophecies of Ezra and Daniel and one verse in Jeremiah were written in a language called Aramaic. This language became very popular in the ancient world and actually displaced many other languages. Aramaic even…(8:16PM)
    Me:¬†¬†… became the common language spoken in Israel in Jesus time, and it was likely the language He spoke day by day. Some Aramaic words were even used by the Gospel writers in the New Testament.(8:16PM)
    Me:  So, I was wrong in saying that it was not written down until the Babylon Captivity(8:17PM)
    arrowLX:  I knew that, hehe(8:17PM)
    Me:  I forgot that g-d wrote on two tablets of Stone the ten commandments (twice)(8:18PM)
    arrowLX:  I mean about the Aramaic(8:18PM)
    arrowLX:  right(8:18PM)
    Me:  I even have an Aramaic to English Bible(8:21PM)
    arrowLX:  b(8:22PM)
    Me:  one more point from Evidence for God(8:22PM)
    Me:  Additional notes about sexual identity in heaven The Bible indicates that things will be really different in heaven compared to earth. Many religions (e.g., Mormonism, Islam) make claims that heaven will be a place where males will have their choice of multiple female companions. This tends to make those religions more appealing to human males, but makes no sense from a biblical perspective. The Bible says that once we die, there will be no marriage.10 This is because we will be married to God Himself.11 Biblical marriage was designed as a system to produce and raise children as a family unit to encourage them to choose to be with God in heaven. Once in heaven, there is no need for reproduction. Jesus also indicated that the angels (who are spirits) do not marry either. Given these facts, it would seem very strange that God would exhibit any kind of sexual characteristics.(8:22PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  ok the language is still spoken today by a small group or Christians in Iraq who claim to be direct lineal descendents of Jesus(8:24PM)
    arrowLX:  agreed(8:24PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Jesus has already that marriages dont exist in heaven but is for life only(8:25PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  said(8:25PM)
    arrowLX:  yes(8:25PM)
    Me:  I tend to be a Heretic. I believe that when I was created, GOD breathed into me the breath of life, just as GOD breathed into Adam. I believe that Breath will remain with me until I die at which time it will return to GOD and once again I will be one with GOD. My idea of Heaven is being one with GOD(8:26PM)
    Bruce1:  sounds good to me(8:27PM)
    arrowLX:  me too(8:28PM)
    Me:  I do not worry which person of the trinity I might be a part of because those are human terms and GOD is not human(8:28PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Also that is good Buddhist belief and what Nirvana is all aboyt(8:29PM)
    Me:  whether I will know everything when I am with GOD, whether I will be an actual part of GOD, does not matter. Being with GOD is all that matters. And I know that GOD exists. I can not see air but I breathe it and know it exists(8:30PM)
    arrowLX:  right(8:30PM)
    Me:  that is another way that I admit to being a heretic. I believe that Jesus is One of the Ways to God, I believe that All who accept GOD will return to GOD. Even those who do not accept GOD will return to GOD and may be very upset that they wasted so much time when they could have enjoyed being with GOD and worshiping GOD(8:33PM)
    arrowLX:  accepting God might be accepting Jesus(8:35PM)
    Me:  Is God in heaven male? When most people think of God, they think of Him in His glory in heaven. So, the question, Is God male usually refers to God as He exists in heaven. The Bible always refers to God using male pronouns. Does this mean that God is physically male? In other words, does God have male sexual organs? Surprisingly, the Bible does address this question indirectly, through a number of different statements about the nature of God and what He is like. Jesus said that God is spirit.8 Although not defined extensively in the Bible, a spirit is an entity that has no physical body. After His resurrection, Jesus told His disciples that He had returned in bodily form, saying, a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.9 If God is a spirit as the Bible says, and a spirit has no flesh or bones, then God cannot be male in physical form. God is not male, since He is not a physical, but a spiritual, being.(8:36PM)
    arrowLX:  one leads to the other(8:36PM)
    arrowLX:  God does not have a physical body, as far as I know(8:37PM)
    Me:  NOTE WELL: After His resurrection, Jesus told His disciples that He had returned in bodily form, saying, a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.9 If God is a spirit as the Bible says, and a spirit has no flesh or bones, then God cannot be male in physical form. God is not male, since He is not a physical, but a spiritual, being.(8:37PM)
    arrowLX:  understood(8:38PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  It says all who love are born of God. It is also the sign that shows we are Christian. Therefore I believe all who love are automatically born of God and Christian(8:38PM)
    Me:  So, my joke about, Here Comes GOD and boy is She Pissed is just that, a joke because just like GOD is not male, GOD is not female, those are human terms(8:39PM)
    Bruce1:  bro. are yuo saying only christians can love?(8:39PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  God can have a body as did Jesus and as do angels and those who have crossed over. They are not human bodies as we have but still bodies(8:40PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Nope(8:40PM)
    arrowLX:  love is an attribute of God when Man was made in His image(8:41PM)
    Me:  I believe I was born human, I was born gay, I did not choose to be gay, I was not born Christian, I was born into a Christian family and chose to be Christian but it is by choice(8:41PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  I said that all who love are born of God which in my book covers everybody not just Christians(8:42PM)
    Me:  If I had been born into a Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, or Spiritualist family I may have chosen to know GOD in that way and believed that I was on the right path(8:43PM)
    arrowLX:  touched by Gods grace, thats why we are Christiansssssssssss(8:43PM)
    Bruce1:  i thought Gods grace was for everyone?(8:44PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  I also many may be Christian and not realize it even as the Children of Israel followed Jesus without realizing it. If one walks in love they are automatically followers of Christ(8:45PM)
    arrowLX:  b(8:45PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  Believe(8:45PM)
    arrowLX:  oooh tricky point Bruce(8:46PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  It is for all who will receive it(8:47PM)
    arrowLX:  it is, but not everybody takes advantage of it(8:47PM)
    arrowLX:  why not? Thats up to God(8:47PM)
    arrowLX:  brb(8:51PM)
    Bruce1:  i had read that Jesus /G-ds message was for everyone, I guess i assumed G-ds grace and mercy was also(8:53PM)
    arrowLX:  it isif one wants it(8:55PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  It is that is the message of the Bible that God/Jesus loves all and extends salvation to all z(8:55PM)
    Brotherlawrence:  as well as his mercy to all(8:55PM)
    Me:  Okay it is 10 PM Eastern Time and we have been at it for Two hours. I would like to ask all of you to exit this room and go to Main Chat so I can post this to the Topic section so others may read what we discussed. Next week we continue with the question Where did all the other gods come from? Resource is Daniel and Revelations, the War before Creation.(8:56PM)
    arrowLX:  its a tricky concept better for a later Hot Topic(8:56PM)
    arrowLX:  ok Larry(8:57PM)

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